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Post by dnsingbanana on Feb 1, 2016 18:25:00 GMT -8
Some ideas to promote scouting and wandering the map a bit more, and adding to the hunter fantasy.
Parasite blowdart :
-crafted at hunter's lodge, artisan 0, crafting time : don't know exactly, but short
-2 lumber, 1 nightcrawler.
+2 endurance
Active : injects a parasite in an enemy kobold, reducing their hunger by 30 over 30 seconds. Reduces hunger gained from eating by 50% for the duration. If the opponent has 0 hunger, the parasite will deal 5 damage per seconds. Further applications will only refresh the timer.
Has the same range as your vision range, making it effective with ranger's maille or foraging's night vision increase.
1 charge, after which it is broken, and must be repaired (like vicious javelin). Repairing it however costs 1 nightcrawler from the inventory.
Another addition to the crafted items of the hunter's lodge, the parasite blowdart serves as an early-mid game harass tool, and as a way to promote scouting/wandering. You can use it to slow down teching enemies by forcing them to spend more time searching for food, or prepare an attack by forcing the enemy to use his food just for the hunger, wasting the potential heal in battle. While 1 charge will not be the most harmful thing in the world (and it's intended so it's not "freely drop it if you feel like it" ), if you manage to get your opponent constantly parasited he will be forced to either take a lot of damage or use his food for half the hunger value. Be careful not to get ambushed thought!
Obviously, ALL numbers are subjects to change.
Befriending pheasant :
Give a handful of berries to a pheasant to befriend it (isn't a pet and doesn't count for pet limits/upgrades. Berries are consumed in the process).
Once befriended, the pheasant stops moving, and you can drop items into his 4 inventory slots. The pheasant can not be ordered to move around, and has a single "Send(s)" command. Use send and click a location/player to order the pheasant to go at that location/player. Once the pheasant arrives he drop his inventory onto the ground and is no longer befriended. Befriended pheasants don't attract attention from wild animals.
As you roam around the map and find rare resources like infused lumber, sunflowers, antlers or bear pelts, you would like to send them to your teammates teching/crafting into the main base. However, you often can't as a storage outpost is way too costly to just send a pair of resources, and might indicate your presence. Befriending a pheasant lets you send quickly those resources (pheasants are faster than beavers) while giving a bit more emphasis on berries which are not used in that many recipes.
While beaver will remain the way to go for sending large amounts of resources at no cost between 2 bases, for a lone kobold in the woods pheasants are quite good.
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Post by Broot on Feb 1, 2016 19:01:16 GMT -8
Wow, very good - I like these kind of subtle mechanics. They make the game more than just tech-fest, potion war - thanks for your contribution. I think it would also make sense that the blow dart would reveal the target. It would be a stronger counter to critical strikes as well.
As for befriending a pheasant, I'm not sure about the inventory idea. But maybe they could serve some other purposes.
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distro
New Member
The life of a kobold is as good as you make it!
Posts: 43 
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Post by distro on Feb 1, 2016 19:38:25 GMT -8
Blowdart: This would be a very interesting and peculiar item to add in to the game. I would Assume that this is going to be a ranged mainhand? Due to the very strong active of this item and the fact that it is a cheap ranged item, it would be wise to make the range less than a gun (so 2-3) as it would be very powerful to have a ranged item that you can begin crafting near the opponents base at the first night. That said it might be wise for this item to have a reduced damage calculation (so maybe .5-.75 of total attack damage). Somebody that is mechanically skilled would be able to wreak havoc on the early game of a poor innocent teching kobold. So this is what I would change in order to require constant harass rather than a hit and run parasite attack (in which case he'll be using lots of food anyway) so here is my suggestion to introduce this new peculiar item into the game with more of an impact. Also shooting parasites seems a little bit illogical to me, so im going to change it to poison in the suggestion (this is totally just my personal preference)
Parasite Blowdart
No art required
Main Hand
(notice that the stick has 7 stat points, so im going to buff up the stat points on the blow dart a bit)
2 DEX
4 INT
Passive: (Draining Toxins)((For constant Harass)) Every dart contains a payload of a toxin that causes fatique in the enemy kobold, the kobold must eat more in order to survive this fatique. Every attack drains (3*AlchemyPower)-1 hunger.
Passive: (Greater Fatigue) The target kobold loses .25% Movespeed for each point in hunger they are missing
Passive (The dart doesnt really hurt until the poison kicks in) Darts only deal half damage.
Active: (Disease) ((For Hit and runs)) Target enemy kobold is infected by a peculiar disease that can spread to his food items. The target kobold begins to lose hunger at a rate of AlchemyPower per second. This effect lasts until the target kobold eats a food item. (Min 8 Seconds duration)
(Cooldown 20 seconds)
I think that this will balance the problem of an early ranged attack problem and focus more on the harass and hunger aspects. A turret could fend off this new item but could most likely be brought down by somebody using the old one and forestry. Instead of fighting the turret the enemy kobold can use the hit and run tactic with the active
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Post by dnsingbanana on Feb 1, 2016 22:32:50 GMT -8
Yeah vision would "make sense", like parasite in sc , and so you can contemplate your work. Multi purpose items are a pain to balance thought, and it might take away the "bad uses" where you use it on a too high hunger target/don't reapply it after 30 seconds by making it always be good with the vision but.. Not sure! For pheasants well.. That's the only use i found them ^^ distro The item is an offhand actually (well in my version) and the only thing that is ranged is the active(your vision range). It's intended to be more of a consumable than an equipment : you equip it just to use the active, then switch to something with more stats/utility. So no range damage whatsoever, the only thing that can deal damage is the parasite if they have 0 hunger (to prevent them just staying at 0 hunger and saying "no problem") It's not intended to be an in-battle item, but more an harass tool. I used nightcrawler because you're still supposed to run around to find ammo, but spicy herbs could be an ammo aswell if nightcrawlers prove to be too costly(then boom : call it poisoned blowdart). Your version i more an in-battle blowdart, so it's not really the main role. The only thing is.. If you already get that close to someone, you could rush/try to kill them as well, althought i don't deny that if you know you will not be able to it will be more effective in the long run. I like your version but i still think it's a LOT of commitment with the range, and might get you killed more often than not. Also it promotes less scooting, more inyourface-ing. |
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Post by Lorenor on Feb 2, 2016 5:10:29 GMT -8
About dnsingbanana´s version of the Parasitic Dart:
I like the effect of your item, but I don´t really see a reason why it should be offhand equipment. If you could only use it for the active, that would mean you have to equip and unequip it very often, which is always kind of annoying, especially with the lack of hotkeys. I would rather make it an inventory item (so an item that you can use from your inventory, no weapon slot required). I really can´t predict how effective such an item would be, but making the range equal to vision range definitely seems too strong to me. It´s easy to stack up 3 or 4 nightcrawlers during one night, and with a range advantage of at least 6 units (that is when the enemy has fish sticker), it´s almost impossible to defend against this item.
About distro´s version: This could be a 25 art item, based on it´s effects, but even then I´m not a fan of it. The hunger drain on hit is ok, going up to about 5 hunger per hit seems fine. But I absolutely don´t like the idea of a slow on a ranged weapon. Every hit would slow the target by about 1%, up to 25% - it´s not said for how long, but that would make every melee weapon completely useless, since you won´t ever be able to catch up, while it is at the same time impossible to escape a parasitic dart user.
The attack damage reduction on the other hand means that this item sucks against ranged weapons, because you can´t kite them, so you will always take more damage than you can deal.
My suggestion:
Parasitic Dart
Main hand
Crafting: Hunter´s Lodge (0 art), 1 lumber, 1 nightcrawler
2 DEX, 4 INT
Active: Consumes a nightcrawler from your inventory to store up 6 darts (they are shown as small number next to the item, similar to javelin stacks)
Passive: If you have dart stacks, your attacks have 3.5 range and drain 1 (+0.1 per Alchemy Power) hunger and life per second for 5 seconds. If no hunger can be drained anymore, the damage is increased to 3 (+0.3 per Alchemy Power).
This is not exactly what banana had in mind, I know, but I really think that the 12+ range makes poking far too easy. But it still is a far better harass item than an "inyourface" weapon, since it is most effective to attack only once every 5 seconds.
Now about the pack pheasants: I agree with almost everything you say, the only thing is: I don´t really see pheasants beeing pack animals. But I love the idea of beeing able to transport resources back to your base, so:
Pack horse: Buy a pack horse for 50 gold at the storage outpost: The packhorse has 6 inventory slots and is a combination of pack beaver and pet.
It has 4 buttons:
Follow - follows it´s owner.
Deliver - Goes to an allied storage outpost.
Load - Transfers the first 6 (or how many free inventory slots it has left) items from the storage outpost or your inventory into it´s own inventory.
Unload - The opposite of load... transfers it´s inventory to the storage outpost or your inventory.
If having a torch or lantern in the inventory, the pack horse will be safe from wolf attacks.
If a pack horse is following you, you can directly craft or build with resources from it´s inventory.
Doesn´t get attacked from wolves or bears if at a storage outpost.
The pack horse requires a pet slot if it´s following you.
Every player can only have one pack horse at a time.
I know that this means berries would still be very rarely used, but as Broot said, pheasants could have a different purpose, also in combination with the berry treat, I for example would like to have more scouting options than the storage outpost bird. Maybe we could combine your idea with my "Falconer´s Bracers" from the beastmaster post, so the active would require berries to tame a bird.
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kwan
New Member
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Post by kwan on Feb 2, 2016 7:30:27 GMT -8
I like the parasite idea for scouting purposes. Like Old Queen from SC.
- infect an animal or tree, gives limited vision until it dies. Give it a glow for allies, so they know not to kill it. Enemies dont know they are spotted.
- infect kobold, reveals location of Kobold for 30 sec, not decloaking.
- infect Big animal at South shrine. It lets Out a roar that everyone can hear. After 7 minutes 50 uncontrollable zombies spawn for your team. Enemy team can override control of the animal by infecting it themselves, not resetting timer, but releasing a roar.
PS: i am currently retired, not sure if and when i come back.
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Post by dnsingbanana on Feb 2, 2016 8:41:02 GMT -8
I initially thought of the blowdart just being an item in the inventory, that you use much like a flask. But that would've meant it would also have to have a shortcut , which might not be feasible. Now that i think about it, since you use it mostly out of combat, it would not really be an issue.
The reason why it has such range is because it's not supposed to have you commit, while at the meantime it deals no damage by himself. I think it feels frightening because maybe the numbers, now that i think about it 30 hunger + hunger loss during 30 seconds can easily come close to 50 , meaning an opponent hit by it with less than 50 will be forced to eat for less hunger. The idea is to tweak the numbers so that if the opponent has good food/cooking, he's fine, but if he prepared just enough to no die of hunger by himself he'll suffer. With it, it also put more enphasis on the various cooking items/effects and cleansing draught which are rarely ever used. the dart by itself is not supposed to kill, but to severely slow down your enemy, force him to search for food instead of doing whatever he was trying to do. Thought you are right with the range, it might need some adjustements. Still, it has to be out of fighting range to work.
The thing i don't like with your weapon is that well.. It's can be used as a weapon : you still attack with full damage, with a bit of range, decently easy to make it might be an easy way to be ranged. It can definitely work, especially in long chase scenarios, but i think it's more a weapon with it's own fighting style than a way to specifically harass and target hunger.
I however really like the pack horse. really strong, but since it takes a pet slot it's a choice. It might be hard to balance actually accounting the number of things you can do with it but i like it. Also might make the use of trebuchet more common since you can use them to transport the stones.
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Post by Lorenor on Feb 2, 2016 10:02:16 GMT -8
I don´t think that the numbers are too high, 30 hunger equals a wolf stake (or raw lamb with 10 cooking), which is easy to get if you have either a farm or a tavern. I get your point of, literally, starving the enemy out, but I don´t really know if the trade of one nightcrawler vs one roasted lamb would favor the harasser (actually I´m pretty sure that it doesn´t). So without beeing agressive, you wouldn´t really make much use of the hunger drain anyway. The only way to make it effective is to use it while simultaneously distract (aka attack) your enemy, so he doesn´t have time to cook food or buy a lamb from his tavern. And since that´s the case, I thought it wouldn´t hurt to give the Parasite Dart some offensive attributes as well.
So basically yout item currently is a "no risk - no reward" item. You don´t take any risks because of it´s huge range, but you also don´t really gain anything, because you loose a nightcrawler to force the enemy to eat a roasted lamb.
I absolutely don´t want to advertise my idea of making this item a weapon, if you think it should be a consumable or offhand that´s totally fine. I just thought it would be easier to fix the mentioned problems by making it a slightly more offensive item.
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Post by dnsingbanana on Feb 2, 2016 12:14:16 GMT -8
It's not much indeed , but i think the big feature is the 50 % hunger gain reduction. Suddenly if the opponent is forced to eat before the parasite runs out, he has to use 2 steaks to gain back what he lost from the parasite, plus maybe another one from the natural hunger decay. The whole idea is that it's not very useful if you only throw one, however if you constantly afflict an enemy with it, he would have to use A LOT of food to keep his hunger high.
So in fact you're right : the range has to be decreased (6 units ?), but in compensation each nightcrawler gives 2 charges? So that then the effectiveness of the item is not so much how much nightcrawlers you can find, but more how you manage to get close and how the enemy team protects the target from being hit again?
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distro
New Member
The life of a kobold is as good as you make it!
Posts: 43
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Post by distro on Feb 2, 2016 15:36:39 GMT -8
Lorenor Completely agreed, now that I think about it if you got caught out mele against this item somebody mechanically skilled could easily kite and kill you. The attack damage reduction however was simply a weak attempt to balance the slow and encourage hit and run rather than all ins. Overall my suggestion was not while thought out, but im glad that the stat point up was kept. I like the concept of this item as an early harass weapons but I see a few problems with this item because the stick is much easier to make AND much more powerful in my opion A kobold (Varying with perks) by night 1 with this item will most have around 25 Intelligence, so 2.5 Alchemy power. This means that this new item would drain 1.25 hunger and life per second for 5 second, in addition to the normal basic attack. This is hardly any kind of addition to the normal basic attack as the one being attacked will want to use food anyways, considering it would heal both the health AND hunger drain, but i were going up against the item I would be more worried about basic attacks. Basic attacks would be much more harmful than this lousy hunger drain which also encourages you to go all in on your opponent. If you just hit and run and don't go all in I doubt that your opponent would care at all. If I had made a stick I would probably just chase down the dart user knowing that they will run out of charges and either not be able to attack (or reload) giving me time to gain a distance advantage with my stick and go for the kill.
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Post by thrall on Feb 3, 2016 18:30:49 GMT -8
I would suggest you another direction. Why don't change this item for a trap ? Parasite dart trap. Allows easy harass and the item is still interesting for late game.
Main hand item would be dangerous or useless.
Too poweful => easy rush => very bad
Not enough powerful => nobody will use in early game => replaced with better gear in late game
I'm not even sure that kind of item can be balanced correctly.
I prefer the idea of item to use in the inventory. For the shortcut, we can just change Throw potion by Quick item use. Main hand or off hand item would need to compete with a lot of better gear. That would limit the item to early game.
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Post by Lorenor on Feb 4, 2016 6:23:49 GMT -8
"I would suggest you another direction. Why don't change this item for a trap ? Parasite dart trap. Allows easy harass and the item is still interesting for late game."
I like the idea of more and different traps in the game.
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Post by dnsingbanana on Feb 4, 2016 11:22:39 GMT -8
I thought about changing the throw potion button aswell, but that would maybe mean that every useable item would have to participate in the global 8.5 seconds cooldown. Which might be good, or might be bad considering what the items are supposed to do. Or that you could use the quick item use button 2 times in a quick succession, one launching a potion and the other an useable item.
I think a trap would be cool aswell. Thought maybe not with the exact same mechanic of the spike trap, so it's not the same trap with different effects. Maybe make it have a range? The parasite would jump into the first enemy kobold to penetrate its area, since its effects on hunger might not be as immediate than the spike trap it would not be too strong.
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Post by Octometaknight on Feb 17, 2016 11:14:44 GMT -8
I thought about a trap that, when activated, would send the affected kobold to the farthest tree in the range of 20. Not sure how it would be made, but it could be used to give kobolds without a lot of resources a chance to flee from rushes.
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